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 Harmer Pleytid (dark monk)

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Tidy
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PostSubject: Harmer Pleytid (dark monk)   Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:05 pm

Blib was asking for a monk build, so here's Harmer's spec (dark monk, second life):

Stats
Lawful Good human
16 str
16 dex
14 con
10 int
14 wis
8 cha
all bonus stats into str
+2 tomes across the board at level 7 (cha optional)

Skill points
skill points into concentration (it affects your ki reserve), spot (you'll be running ahead so you need to see hidden monsters and detect traps), balance (you are weak - if you get knocked down you will die easily), jump (monks run and jump around a lot - don't rely on spells for this in case you die - which you will).

spare points into hide, move silently, swim. Ninja spy gives you sneaky stuff, including invis-for-ki), and expect to be doing the evasion bits of Crucible.

Note: 12 base int from level 7 onwards. Skill points can be very useful for a ninja spy; don't use int as a dump stat. But str is your most important stat, probably followed by con.

Feats
lvl 1
(human) dodge (for ninja spy)
(tr) past life: fighter
power attack
(monk) two weapon fighting

lvl 2:
(monk) diehard

lvl 3:
(monk) dark path
toughness

lvl 6:
cleave
(monk) stunning fist (maybe something else, not happy with sf)

lvl 9:
improved two weapon fighting

lvl 12:
improved critical: bludgeon

lvl 15:
greater two weapon fighting

lvl 18:
weapon focus: bludgeon (maybe)

Enhancements
aim for:
clever monkey
human improved recovery
racial toughness
ninja spy 1+2 (and prereqs)
adept of everything
touch of death
master of everything
grandmaster (str+dex)

-----------------

And as I was also asked for advice, here's my two-penny-worth:

  1. Light monks spread themselves thin. You can make good light monks, but it's harder to do than make good dark monks. Light monks can bypass dr; dark monks can carry different sets of handwraps. Light monks can raise dead; dark monks can group with a cleric. Dark monks do more damage and are easier to build.

  2. Stick to handwraps. Don't bother with dual-wielding shortswords (a ninja spy speciality). You won't do nearly as much damage, so the only point to them is to have two different green-style-like weapons, eg. one to paralyse and one to curse. You're probably better off doing damage though (if you build for twf, other things will suffer). Likewise, you can make more exotic monk builds using quaterstaves, etc, but if it's your first attempt stick to handwraps.

  3. Don't bother with finishing moves on a dark monk. You *can* do stuff with them, but they make playing far more complicated, and things generally die just as you trigger the move. For low level mobs, things die too quickly; at high levels, finishing moves are not worth the effort imo. Just thump 'em and move on.

  4. DO master Touch of Death. It will either do 250hp or 500hp damage. (At higher levels it will end up as 250 90% of the time, but that's still a 250hp attack.) Touch of Death cannot be blocked by dr - it will ALWAYS do at least 250hp of damage, unless the mob is immune to death attacks (undead and blobs mainly). If everyone else is doing 0hp in yellow, you'll be doing 250hp in red - just run away until your battery has recharged then run back and do it again. Orange-named bosses can often be easier to kill than the small fry.

  5. Your starting stats are critical. You have *4* stats to keep high: str and con for obvious reasons (and monks don't get fighter bab, so pump everything you can afford into str for the end game); dex bonus gives direct ac (no dex limit because you don't wear any armour); wis bonus is also added to your ac so long as you are centred so this is an important second source of ac. But you really need your stats for:

  6. Max out your 4 elemental attacks/stances. You can easily manage 4xmaster; you can also get at least one grandmaster (usually pick fire, because that's likely to be your most used stance). Each line is tied to a stat (str, dex, con, wis). You need base 18 in the stat for grandmaster, but only 16 for master. (Base includes tome and level-up increases, but not enhancements or equipment, so your starting stats can forever limit which lines you can max out.)

  7. Map keys 1-4 to your elemental attacks, and mash them during fights (don't worry about which attack you're doing). If you are in fire stance, you will generate ki on every hit which feeds back into bonus elemental damage.

  8. Fire stance is best for fists; wind stance is not bad, but you don't generate ki nearly as quickly, so it's only a better option if you aren't using elemental strikes. Mountain stance is not a good choice - you're going to get hit a lot whether it's on or off, and killing things quickly is the best way to survive - monks are very squishy. Ocean stance might be useful when dodging traps, but I've never bothered myself.

  9. Get yourself wraps of endless night (halloween event). Monks are probably the best undead-killing class in the game, and the wraps are the main reason. The level 12 version is: +3, undead bane, Brilliance (1d6 light per hit + 1d10 light on a critical), Light Bringer (disruption on a vorpal). And of course they are blunt, so no dr on skeletons, and your hands don't wear out.

  10. Handwraps aren't actually weapons. They transfer their effects onto your body. Thus you can use pure good handwraps even if neutral, because your *body* becomes pure good.

  11. From level 5 you're immune to disease. From level 11 you're immune to poison. From level 13 you get natural spell resistance (of monk level + 10). You get natural feather falling and striding (eventually) too, so you can free up some eq slots.

  12. Monks are good at taking down casters - they can run fast out in front of the main party, they can leap chasms and run across water, and casters tend to be easy to melee. So make sure you can shrug off spells: resistance +4, spell res (you get this automatically at level 13), enchantment resistance (you can craft this), deathblock, balance, strength (to avoid getting knocked down), high con/wis/dex for saves, evasion, and ship buffs (or fire res 30 at least).

  13. Two-weapon feats often affect fists too. Read the feat descriptions carefully.

  14. Monks get all their good stuff early on. From level 15 onwards, that's when you'll notice a dip in your power output.

  15. Monks are very light on hp and ac. Get anything that helps push up your hp. Don't go mad on ac - you'll never be a tank, especially on elite quests at higher levels.

  16. There's a thing monks get late on, don't remember the exact name - it's something like Shadow Walk. It's useful for running through hoards of mobs to get to a shrine or quest entrance, but it's also useful in Rainbow in the Dark, because the effect can act as a form of Darkvision (if you have the right graphics settings).

  17. Monks are designed to do lots of small damage quickly, the opposite to two-handed barbies, which do big damage slowly. Unless the barbie is a power player, it's not unusual for a monk to beat them in the kill count, especially in undead quests. Doesn't necessarily mean the monk is doing more damage overall, it could just mean that they are doing more attacks. But don't tell the barbie that. A side effect is it is harder to generate hate.

  18. Handwraps don't take damage from oozes. *You* are the weapon, not the handwraps. Monks should handle rusties and oozes for the group.

  19. Handwraps are not really weapons, so your 'weapon' is the default unarmed: bludgeoning, with a critical of x2 just on a 20 (or 19-20 if you take improved critical:bludgeon). So don't worry too much about critical hits at low-to-mid levels - they don't add all that much to your damage output. Remember that much of your damage comes from bonuses that are applied *after* the critical calculation. (At higher levels, criticals can become more significant.)

  20. There are no greensteel handwraps. You get ToD rings later on instead.


Last edited by Tidy on Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Monk help   Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:44 am

Tidy,

Thank you very much for the well thought out and complex post on the monk build. After reading the post i feel more inclined to take my monk life next on Blibx.....

As all know i have never had the conficence to roll amonk hgher then lvl 12 as i normally started with shit stats.

At least i have swallowed +1 +2 +3 tomes for all stats so it should help in the end game.

Again TYVM

Blibs
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PostSubject: Re: Harmer Pleytid (dark monk)   Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:45 am

With Blibx bein a 36 point build would you increase strength or put into int or cha?
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PostSubject: Re: Harmer Pleytid (dark monk)   Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:16 pm

Can't remember off the top of my head, but I think you'd be short a build point if you wanted 17str. (The extra +1 from the +3 str tome will bring this to 18 against Harmer's 16.)

If you're certain of +3 tomes, then you can drop some of your other starting stats down a bit if you want and get back some points. 14 wis/con with +2 gives you 16, which is enough for master, but 13 wis/con with +3 would do the job too. So 13wis would give you 17str (I think) without losing mastership.

I personally don't have any use for cha, and int only needs to be high enough to give you 1 point per level in each of the useful skills. Ibe had enough int for combat expertise (don't remember why I needed that now), but you only need more int than Harmer if you're wanting to be a sneaky type. Harmer compromises on stealth for mastership - I was expecting a rogue in the group.

Your stats are always going to be a compromise until 56pt builds become available.
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PostSubject: Help / thoughts most welcome   Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:53 am

[code]Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(20 Monk)
Hit Points: 354
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 16
Will: 16

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)

Strength 17 25 27
Dexterity 15 18 18
Constitution 15 18 18
Intelligence 9 12 12
Wisdom 14 17 19
Charisma 9 12 12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Level 1 Level 20 Level 20
Balance 6 27 27
Bluff -1 1 1
Concentration 6 27 38
Diplomacy -1 1 1
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle -1 1 3
Heal 2 4 4
Hide 2 4 6
Intimidate -1 1 3
Jump 3 27 29
Listen 2 4 4
Move Silently 2 4 4
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair -1 1 1
Search -1 1 1
Spot 6 26 27
Swim 3 8 8
Tumble n/a 12 14
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Past Life: Barbarian
Past Life: Fighter
Past Life: Rogue
Past Life: Rogue
Toughness
Two Weapon Fighting
Orcish Fury I
Improved Concentration I
Improved Jump I
Improved Spot


Level 2
Power Attack
Way of the Clever Monkey I
Improved Tumble I
Monk Wisdom I


Level 3 (Monk)
Dodge
Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Orcish Strength I
Racial Toughness I
Improved Hide I


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Orcish Power Attack I
Monk Improved Recovery I
Improved Jump II

Level 5 (Monk)
Way of the Clever Monkey II
Improved Tumble II


Level 6 (Monk)
Cleave
Toughness
Adept of Wind
Adept of Flame


Level 7 (Monk)
Porous Soul
Adept of Rock


Level 8 (Monk)
STR
Monk Ninja Spy I


Level 9 (Monk)
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Adept of Rain
Racial Toughness II


Level 10 (Monk)
Orcish Strength II


Level 11 (Monk)
Improved Hide II
Monk Wisdom II

Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Monk Ninja Spy II


Level 13 (Monk)
Master of Stone
]Master of Bonfires


Level 14 (Monk)
Master of Thunder


Level 15 (Monk)
Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Static Charge
Master of the Sea


Level 16 (Monk)
Raise: STR
All-Consuming Flame
Winter's Touch


Level 17 (Monk)
Touch of Death


Level 18 (Monk)
Past Life: Berserker's Fury
Grandmaster of the Sun


Level 19 (Monk)
Grandmaster of Storms


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise:STR
Monk Serenity
Orcish Power Attack II

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PostSubject: Re: Harmer Pleytid (dark monk)   Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:05 pm

You're not taking ToD until level 17?
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PostSubject: Re: Harmer Pleytid (dark monk)   Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:34 am

Just to make it clear, the Harmer build is for a first-timer monk who doesn't want it to be too fiddly to play - it isn't really suitable for Epic. For epic, you pretty much need to do the complete opposite of everything I've said: high Wis, low(ish) Str, etc. There's even a decent finishing move, and stunning fist is worth taking. But still stick to handwraps! Very Happy

I'll have to post up Ibewantin's current build at some point for contrast.

My advice is to stick to Harmer's build until you get the hang of it (or until you reach level 20), then if you decide you want to be high-end-proof, buy a heart of wood (or use your free one) and adjust all your stats and feats.
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PostSubject: Re: Harmer Pleytid (dark monk)   Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:18 pm

Thank you for the update tidy, i am trying at lvl 20 str8 away.
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PostSubject: Re: Harmer Pleytid (dark monk)   Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:20 pm

For high-end monk, you need high wis and dex (for ac), and as much hp as you can afford without affecting your hitting ability. Here's roughly what Ibewantin has. (This is a first-life 32pt build. I just used my free Heart of Wood and some +3 tomes to convert it from the Harmer build.)

str 30: 16 base, 3 inherent, 1 feat, 10 enchanted
dex 24: 15 base, 3 inherent, 6 enchanted
con 25: 13 base, 3 inherent, 9 enchanted
int 12: 9 base, 3 inherent
wis 34: 20 base, 3 inherent, 4 feat, 7 enchanted
cha 13: 8 base, 3 inherent, 2 enchanted

When levelling up, one point to str and the rest to wis.

ac 69 before buffs, 75-80 usual with buffs
saves 30/30/35
hp 481
ki 380
spell res 35
fort 100%
lawful neutral human (but lawful good would be better now - neutral was because pure good handwraps worked without you needing to be good)

skills:
1 point in tumble, balance (42), concentration (62), jump (43), spot (37),
move silently/hide

feats:
cleave
dodge
power attack
dark path
two weapon fighting
improved two weapon fighting
greater two weapon fighting
improved crit: bludgeon
quivering palm (I never use it)
slippery mind
stunning fist
toughnessx3
vorpal strikes (epic)
improved martial arts (epic)

enhancements:
monk serenity (Capstone)
human adaptability I (str)
human improved recovery I
static charge
way of the clever monkey 4
touch of death
porous soul
all-consuming flame
Monk ninja spy 2
winter's touch
grandmaster of storms
master of stone
grandmaster of the sun
grandmaster of oceans
racial toughness 2
improved jump 2
improved tumble 2
monk wisdom 2

And at level 20 you get your first decent finishing move: earth->air->fire->shining star
(cha adds to dc)

Destiny: Grandmaster of Flowers.

The choice of vorpal strikes is controversial. It doesn't do much in practice, not in quests at least, but I've kept it for the slash damage. You need a LOT of wis to get it, which distorts the build, but the extra ac turns out to be vital anyway, so if you don't take vorpal strikes you should still go for very high wis. The low str has not been a problem on epic normal, but I can't vouch for epic elite.

Remember that monks get ac from both dex and wis (while centred), and their dex bonus doesn't get capped because they don't wear armour. And in terms of equipment, the villager set from Eveningstar is a really good starting point.

The pros and cons of your stances are different at level 20 too. It's possible to be grandmaster in at least 3 elements (possible to do all 4 if you really want), and the maxed out stances don't have such high penalties when all your level bonuses are taken into account and if you have high ac and saves already. For instance, if you are about to run through some traps and rely on your evasion, switching to ocean stance can give that little extra edge (+5 to saves). Likewise, the penalties for the maxed out earth stance are not severe at level 20 if you have high ac. If you are struggling to survive a fight it can be worth trading the extra ki that fire stance brings.

In summary, a power player could come up with something better, I'm sure, but this is my Frag toon and it outlives you lot, so nerrr! :p
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